Vave

[Go Storm]

It's looking like Manly will dodge a bullet here??
Apparently their 'dodgy' players acted alone outside of the club's knowledge or consent.

Are they really this tight-knit up there that players will fall on their own sword for the good of the club?

[waveydavey]

It's looking like Manly will dodge a bullet here??
Apparently their 'dodgy' players acted alone outside of the club's knowledge or consent.

It doesn't matter where they got the drugs, or who had knowledge of them taking them or not, the fact is they took drugs that were banned and then played for Manly, therefore giving Manly an unfair advantage over all other teams (except Cronulla obvioulsy!!!). If they won a premiership with these players then they have it stripped, simple as that in my mind. I think in the olympics if one member of a relay team has taken drugs then all forfeit the medal??? (Maybe wrong, happy to be corrected).

[Go Storm]

^^good point^^

It just seems a bit like a diversion tactic to me, but yet I'm privy to very limited info.
I wonder if they've paid, or promised, a couple of non-first graders to take a fall for them??
Could just be my skepticism??

[waveydavey]

Don't get me wrong go storm, I'm as suspicious as hell that something is going down to show leniency for any indiscretions Manly may be accused of!! However, as sports lover, let me put it this way, out of systematic salary cap breaches, taking performance enhancing drugs or deliberately throwing a game, although all serious, in my mind salary cap breaches are last on that list. Not sure if the other two can be ranked or are equal. So, to get to my point, I would expect punishment to be handed down by the NRL at least equal to what we received. If they won a trophy whilst players were on performance enhancing drugs, they had an unfair advantage, then take the Lima Lima ducking thing off them!!!

[storm77]

I am with you. Everyone breaches the salary cap. Always have and always will. That is just doing business.
Although I wonder if it would be as common if we had a different system. For example players were on restricted contracts. Another team makes a significant offer, you don't match but you get compensation for losing a star player. Of course if there was a draft it would be easy however there are still junior players that can be exchanged. The reason it is such a common recurrence is because teams really hate losing star players that they have spent years developing like us with G.I. If there had been a draft for example a team could have made an offer for G.I and in return (because it would be a huge offer) we would receive a number of draft picks including first rounders. Problem is you develop a great player (as we always do) and then they just walk away and you get nothing for your time and effort.

[waveydavey]

I am with you. Everyone breaches the salary cap. Always have and always will. That is just doing business.

I think you may have missed my point storm77.

In no way was I condoning breaching the salary cap because every other team does it, especially in a systematic manner in which we did (I still have a massive problem with the lack of due process, and whether we were over the cap significantly to remove at least two minor and one premiership, but that's another story, and I've had my say on that quite few times on here!!! ). I was more pointing out that although breaching the salary cap is serious, I would rank it behind match fixing and taking performance enhancing drugs, and so I believe that any punishment should be at least equal to what we suffered.

[Go Storm]

I hope this doesn't turn into a salary cap debate, so I appologise for continuing this discussion.
I must disagree with the above comments. I do believe that a salary cap is vital in maintaining a truely fair and competitive competition. An unfortunate side effect is that clubs will often lose star players they've developed over the years.
The biggest problem is non NSW & QLD teams such as Melbourne and Warriors are at a huge disadvantage when it comes to enticing youngsters to sign with them for the same money they can get close to home.
I don't think a draft is the solution, but maybe a legitimate rent assistance scheme upto the age of 22.
And as for a salary cap, it should be just that- a cap. Regardless of where the money comes from or who it goes to, the cap is the same.
All of this 3rd party bs is where clubs such as Broncos and Sydney clubs are at a massive advantage from any others. And it's where dodgy accounting becomes easier to disguise.

But drugs in sport is no good either. And equal in consequence, so should be equal in punishment.

[waveydavey]

I do believe that a salary cap is vital in maintaining a truely fair and competitive competition.

Absolute agreement from me, and I've never disputed that the salary cap isn't essential, never even debated the fairness in terms of location or keeping players that have developed through a club, that's all part and parcel of the salary cap that all clubs sign up to abide by. Let me state that again, the salary cap is essential, we got caught cheating it so we quite rightly got punished (my debate (which is an aside to this thread) is with the due process and severity, not with the cap itself).

Please let me have one more attempt at making it absolutely clear what I have been trying to say in my posts in this thread.

In terms of match fixing, salary cap breaches (not the minor ones most teams seem to have, but the big fat rorts the Storm, Bulldogs and Warriors have been guilty of over the past decade) and taking performance enhancing drugs. I would rate taking the drugs and match fixing to be higher in my own personal view (as a sports spectator and fan of rugby league, soccer, cricket, etc.) than salary cap breaches (again, the big fat ones, not the little ones) - which in no way, in my personal view, diminishes the salary cap breaches, it's still right there at number three. Again, my personal view, is that the drug taking and match fixing must be treated with at least the same severity of punishment as the big fat salary cap breaches, as, in my view, they come above big fat salary cap breaches.

So now, after I have re-read my previous comments, and have clarified it all again, I really can't see what you disagree with, because in terms of the salary cap being essential, we agree, and in terms of punishment for drug taking, again we agree

Jeez, it would be easier to explain my thoughts over a beer or two

[Bourbon Rat]

So.........................
What does any of the above 'tail chasing the dog' have to do with the original topic of this thread ?

With cronulla players from 2011 being threatened with possible bans, has anyone heard whether vave is in the clear? I hope so, but, just a statement saying he is all right would really put me at ease right now.

[Chip]

I've been told he is in the clear...

[waveydavey]

So.........................
What does any of the above 'tail chasing the dog' have to do with the original topic of this thread ?

With cronulla players from 2011 being threatened with possible bans, has anyone heard whether vave is in the clear? I hope so, but, just a statement saying he is all right would really put me at ease right now.

LOL, Probably nothing other than the drug taking bit....

[storm77]

I am with you. Everyone breaches the salary cap. Always have and always will. That is just doing business.

I think you may have missed my point storm77.

In no way was I condoning breaching the salary cap because every other team does it, especially in a systematic manner in which we did (I still have a massive problem with the lack of due process, and whether we were over the cap significantly to remove at least two minor and one premiership, but that's another story, and I've had my say on that quite few times on here!!! ). I was more pointing out that although breaching the salary cap is serious, I would rank it behind match fixing and taking performance enhancing drugs, and so I believe that any punishment should be at least equal to what we suffered.

Actually I didn't miss your point. To me the salary cap has always been a joke. Remember the Raiders teams of the early 90's were WAY over the cap. Every Bronco's team has been WAY over the cap. Remember the bulldogs situation. And let's not act like there aren't big time salary cap breaches going on right now as we speak (SC or Souths come to mind). You can't police it. You talked about our situation as being systematic, so is everyone's.
The problem as I said is that the NRL is the most unprofessional sports league in the world with the worst PU imaginable. There is no draft, no trading period (a legitimate one), No restricted contracts. There is no CEO, if they have a great young roster, who isn't going to do whatever they can to keep them together. They would be negligent if they didn't.

[stormy]

For the way us fans were treated by other teams fans I would wish it upon others!

*lima lima lima duck* oath!!!

The way OUR TEAM and us fans were treated I WOULD WISH IT UPON EVERY other team.

[Bourbon Rat]

Let's move on shall we !

On report for 'crusher tackle' on Scott ?
Loved the replays that show Scott actually trying to move into a position that created it
And for the rest of the game showed an AMAZING lack of neck pain from said tackle

Still think he'll get pinged by the jude though

[blazza18]

He'll probs get a week which is a shame. His impact for us in the first 2 games has been really good.