Storm War Chest
I disagree. If the market dictates that a players worth is 800k; it is not overpayment.
Especially if you are talking about an 80 minute player who lead the tackle count in the World Challenge game while he was on and is the best edge runner in the whole of the NRL and will play 3 games for the Maroons and may play for Australia this year after a stellar premiership year last year.
It aint overs baby.
it is what he is worth with his ability and workload.
Especially if you are talking about an 80 minute player who lead the tackle count in the World Challenge game while he was on and is the best edge runner in the whole of the NRL and will play 3 games for the Maroons and may play for Australia this year after a stellar premiership year last year.
It aint overs baby.
it is what he is worth with his ability and workload.
The "market value" is whatever someone is willing to pay. Whether or not the player is actually worth that amount is a different conversation.Cameron wrote:If the market dictates that a players worth is 800k; it is not overpayment.
And even if a player is worth that amount, the club still needs to consider, "Does paying a player xxx fit with my overall cap management strategy".
Correct. All of that is salarycapeconomics 101
which I understand but you missed one point.
who can I replace the player with and is that person better value than my current arrangement?
there is no edge runner (plays full 80 mins; tops tackle count, plays for Maroons, leads tries, sets up your offence) at 200k a year or 300k a year or 400k or 500k a year or 600k a year or 700k a year who is good value as Felise
.
Value can be found at the bottom end of the market; but it can also be found at the top end of the market too.
which I understand but you missed one point.
who can I replace the player with and is that person better value than my current arrangement?
there is no edge runner (plays full 80 mins; tops tackle count, plays for Maroons, leads tries, sets up your offence) at 200k a year or 300k a year or 400k or 500k a year or 600k a year or 700k a year who is good value as Felise
.Value can be found at the bottom end of the market; but it can also be found at the top end of the market too.
My opinion of Felise is he is a player who would do that anywhere as long as he had a good support cast and paired with his half back.
Hence it is my belief that he is value at that price. I do not believe you can just put ANYONE in the Storm system and they will work.
That is NOT the history of the Storm.
Value can be found at the top end of the market.
A prime example of this is Cooper Cronk to the Roosters.
At $1 million a year; the Roosters thought cooper Cronk was such good value they picked him up and were prepared to suffer their fans disgust at getting rid of Mitchell Pearce who was a much loved player there.
Value can be found everywhere and sometimes takes some ruthless behaviour to maximise.
Hence it is my belief that he is value at that price. I do not believe you can just put ANYONE in the Storm system and they will work.
That is NOT the history of the Storm.
Value can be found at the top end of the market.
A prime example of this is Cooper Cronk to the Roosters.
At $1 million a year; the Roosters thought cooper Cronk was such good value they picked him up and were prepared to suffer their fans disgust at getting rid of Mitchell Pearce who was a much loved player there.
Value can be found everywhere and sometimes takes some ruthless behaviour to maximise.
Guys you are both right in some repsect but the truth of the matter is that Melboure are the prodduction line of unwanted players to great players that the other teams want. They come they get better we win they go. Its the Melbourne way I for one can not wait to see the bulldogs reject hit the field this year transformed by melbourne. We get them in we train them up we win they leave for big money or not and someone fills the spot its is a machine that has been created by three players and one coach that will see melbourne at the top for a very long time. And the other teams think they can buy it by just getting one or two players into their system what a joke they miss the mark every time of what our cluds essents is. Work Work Work and when thats done more Work and if you dont do that your gone. So enjoy your debate.
i think the players mentioned probably have more of an attitude problem rather then a playing ability problem. under the storm system i dont think the same issue applies.Danger D wrote:I just don't think buying big name players works. Remember these big money signings?
Sandow to Parra
Blair to Tigers
Barba to Broncos
Foran to Parra
Luke and RTS to Warriors
Hayne to Titans
I think those teams became worse off after the signings. The exception to the rule would be the Roosters who won a premiership after signing SBW. They may again feel success with the signing of Cronk but that is yet to be seen.
I think that the Storm system is great. But every rule is made to be broken and imo, there are certain players that you say; sure the storm system is good but the player themselves has something special that adds to the sum of the whole. But hey, that is my opinion.
Lets let Felise walk to the Rabbitos over $200K, and sign one legged Eddie Emu from the Toowoomba Bush Pigs for 100K and see how he runs the lines in the NRL after a big pre-season.
Meanwhile we can look at the $500K we have as unused salary cap and say; wow, how good would we be if we used up our whole salary cap.
Lets let Felise walk to the Rabbitos over $200K, and sign one legged Eddie Emu from the Toowoomba Bush Pigs for 100K and see how he runs the lines in the NRL after a big pre-season.
Meanwhile we can look at the $500K we have as unused salary cap and say; wow, how good would we be if we used up our whole salary cap.
Except Souths who have Britt, Brittain, Hunt, Inglis, Kennar, Nicholls, arthars, Walker and one if our old assistant coaches in Seibold.bushman wrote:Guys you are both right in some repsect but the truth of the matter is that Melboure are the prodduction line of unwanted players to great players that the other teams want. They come they get better we win they go. Its the Melbourne way I for one can not wait to see the bulldogs reject hit the field this year transformed by melbourne. We get them in we train them up we win they leave for big money or not and someone fills the spot its is a machine that has been created by three players and one coach that will see melbourne at the top for a very long time. And the other teams think they can buy it by just getting one or two players into their system what a joke they miss the mark every time of what our cluds essents is. Work Work Work and when thats done more Work and if you dont do that your gone. So enjoy your debate.
Not to mention recent seasons which also featured Rochow, King, Lima, Auva'a, Champion (although he was going back), Crocker and I'm sure I'm missing some...
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Danger D
- Thunderstorm
- Posts: 922
- Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:08 pm
- Location: Living next door to Alice
salarycapeconomics 101
'Market value' is not a constant across the league because 'demand' for different players in different positions varies from club to club. The entire premise of 'overs' is based on clubs with a high demand for a particular player/position paying greater than the mean/average price that other teams would be willing to pay for that player given their individual levels of demand.
I think Cameron is trying to build a case for why we have a greater demand for Felise than what is viewed by others on the forum (blazza, yourhero, etc).
I tend to agree with others in that we can and will produce a ready replacement because our systems and structures require players to only do what they are trained to do. Look at all the good back rowers we've lost in the past that have been replaced easily: Lima, Proctor, Blair, Hoffman, Kidwell, etc. I'm sure there's a hungry young up-and-comer or a fringe first grader at another club who could be built to do a similar job as Felise if not at the same level.
'Market value' is not a constant across the league because 'demand' for different players in different positions varies from club to club. The entire premise of 'overs' is based on clubs with a high demand for a particular player/position paying greater than the mean/average price that other teams would be willing to pay for that player given their individual levels of demand.
I think Cameron is trying to build a case for why we have a greater demand for Felise than what is viewed by others on the forum (blazza, yourhero, etc).
I tend to agree with others in that we can and will produce a ready replacement because our systems and structures require players to only do what they are trained to do. Look at all the good back rowers we've lost in the past that have been replaced easily: Lima, Proctor, Blair, Hoffman, Kidwell, etc. I'm sure there's a hungry young up-and-comer or a fringe first grader at another club who could be built to do a similar job as Felise if not at the same level.
Those people who think it is just the system are pretty arrogant. The system is important but how the player uses the system to his advantage ie his skills and smarts is just as important.
You can have a $500k player as the edge runner who only makes 5 out of 10 plays or you can have a $700k player like Felise Kaufusi who makes 9 out of 10 plays.
That is the difference between finishing 4th and winning the premiership.
Especially in the crisis of finals where one big play can smash a game wide open.
Let me try and explain it to you by using last year’s finals as a backdrop.
Vrs Paramatta Eels in first final
http://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/nrl-fi ... 98e952e094
At the 44 minute mark we are 4 – 10 down. We are passing the ball around and seemingly going nowhere.........
as the commentator says "Their famed systems in disarray!!!!"
Until Felise Kaufusi got the ball.
as the commentator says when Felise gets the ball and runs..."but even then the class shines through!!!"
He didn’t use any structure, he used his own intelligence and ability to go forward, find the hole in the defence and set up the score by Kenny Bromwich.
Lima, Proctor, Blair, Hoffman, Kidwell, etc. would not have made that play.
Without Felise Kaufusi, we don’t win that game. We don’t win the premiership.
Vrs Brisbane in second final,
it was Felise Kaufisi who made two extraordinary fends and passes to set up Billy Slater’s tries.
Lima, Proctor, Blair, Hoffman, Kidwell, etc. would not have made those plays.
Vrs North Queensland Cowboys.
We would have still won but Felise Kaufusi did score a great first try and set up Billy Slaters second try.
That is not even talking about Felise's champion type defensive skills.
So for you guys who are happy to finish 4th every year; then keep believing that the individual within the system is not important.
For those of you who want to win premierships remember; the individual and how they use the system and execute the system is extremely important.
And therefore worth a little extra money.
Especially if you have a little salary cap in reserve anyway – as the article first states.
Sometimes the talent is worth the money but people would rather not win and pay less.
What is the saying?
Cut off your nose to spite your face.
I’d rather win a premiership.
You can have a $500k player as the edge runner who only makes 5 out of 10 plays or you can have a $700k player like Felise Kaufusi who makes 9 out of 10 plays.
That is the difference between finishing 4th and winning the premiership.
Especially in the crisis of finals where one big play can smash a game wide open.
Let me try and explain it to you by using last year’s finals as a backdrop.
Vrs Paramatta Eels in first final
http://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/nrl-fi ... 98e952e094
At the 44 minute mark we are 4 – 10 down. We are passing the ball around and seemingly going nowhere.........
as the commentator says "Their famed systems in disarray!!!!"
Until Felise Kaufusi got the ball.
as the commentator says when Felise gets the ball and runs..."but even then the class shines through!!!"
He didn’t use any structure, he used his own intelligence and ability to go forward, find the hole in the defence and set up the score by Kenny Bromwich.
Lima, Proctor, Blair, Hoffman, Kidwell, etc. would not have made that play.
Without Felise Kaufusi, we don’t win that game. We don’t win the premiership.
Vrs Brisbane in second final,
it was Felise Kaufisi
who made two extraordinary fends and passes to set up Billy Slater’s tries.Lima, Proctor, Blair, Hoffman, Kidwell, etc. would not have made those plays.
Vrs North Queensland Cowboys.
We would have still won but Felise Kaufusi did score a great first try and set up Billy Slaters second try.
That is not even talking about Felise's champion type defensive skills.
So for you guys who are happy to finish 4th every year; then keep believing that the individual within the system is not important.
For those of you who want to win premierships remember; the individual and how they use the system and execute the system is extremely important.
And therefore worth a little extra money.
Especially if you have a little salary cap in reserve anyway – as the article first states.
Sometimes the talent is worth the money but people would rather not win and pay less.
What is the saying?
Cut off your nose to spite your face.
I’d rather win a premiership.