Religion discussion thread

[Mikey]

Judging by my grammar on the last post I need to go back to school

[Super Cronk]

Too tired to go in depth at the moment...but i will surely point out the BS in the bible when i have the time. BTw ofcourse the bible isnt based on fact...it was written many many many years after "jesus " death. But i really hate getting into arguements about this with chirstians because its always the same  "oh no they didnt mean it THAT way...they meant it THIS way"....bs.

I actually am taking holidays this x-mas...but its because my work closes down this time of year not because i choose too take it off.

Nacho you can believe what you want champ...the only reason i voiced my opinion was because mikey started the religion thread....if you dont want to hear negative comments about your fairytale beliefs then dont come into a discussion about religion.

Anyway as i said ill go in depth about why i dislike this religion (and any god loving religion) and the bibles inconsistencies...when im not soooooo tired.

Im sure you a top bloke to mikey....nacho is also a funny bastard....but if you ask my opinion about something then dont get all defensive if its not what you want to hear.

[nacho]

im not trying to get into an argument or come off defensive, just adding to the discussion. if i was affraid of negative comments then i wouldnt have taken part in this thread, true lol. no one ever got hurt by discussing its all good

[Mikey]

Super let me point out something else. You said earlier something along the lines of why should you respect our beliefs. Well its human natuere to respect other people. Storm have choosen to play a game on the most Holy day of the year and if there going to do that there needs to be some respect shown.

If I was attending sport in Muslim country for instance and it was their holy day I would have no problem with a Muslim pre game service even tho I don't agree with their religion. I'm more then happy to be respectful to them even tho I don't agree with their religion. Same goes for any other religion. Lets remember that 64% of Australians consider themselves to be christian

[Super Cronk]

Mate my point was.....what does footy have to do with it? I should have worded it better. I have respect for everyone on a human being level. I do not respect your religion though. I dont see the point in holding a service at a footy game ....no matter what the religion is!! If they said "hey lets have an athiest service and recognise athiesm" ild be like....why? lets just watch footy. If you want to go to church or stay home and do a service thingy then all the best to ya.....

just because 64% consider themselves christian doesnt mean 100% of the people attending the game will be. If the holy day is more important then the football game...stay home and talk to jesus and watch the game on fox.

[Super Cronk]

ps: the fact that you support the storm already makes you top blokes 

[Mikey]

Ok Super I see why you say what you say but let me put it a different way.

I don't think having a brief pre game service will keep anyone away from the game, however if we do have one I can see many Catholics going to church rather over the game, who may attend if there is a a chance for them to pay their respects at the ground.

I am as passionate about the Storm as anyone. I travel interstate I have organised the finals marches etc but I probably won't attend if their is no pre game service.

Look at it from the point of view of a Storm fan not a athiest and surely if it gets a few more bums on seats its worth it surely.

I hate Collingwood but if we had a deal that gave every Collingwood members entry to the game and help boost numbers I would be fine with it.

Also Father Bob who has put his hand up to do the service is well known by non Christians (he is on tripple J etc) and I'm sure he wouldn't be disrespectful of other peoples beliefs.

Lets just give it a go for this season and if its really that bad then we can review it.

[Anonymous]

Sorry about the late reply. Before i get into this i want to make clear that no matter what i say OR what you say we arent going to change each other's beliefs or come to an agreement 

1) God created everything....where was he before he created everything? who created him?

The arc and all the animals: do i really need to explain why this is so hard to believe?

A snake talks to some chick.: see above.

A donkey sees an angel and talks: see above

If a wife's husband was to die wihtout having a child...the husbands brother has  to marry her or risked being spat in the face....lmao

god created light and darkness the first day....the sun on the 4th day. isnt the sun light?

god is "omniscience"  yet is upset/surprisd that the wickedness of man was great on earth.

It says that if someone eats the forbidden fruit that that person will day that same day....adam lived for 930 years?

god is all knowing...seeing etc etc yet still askes people if they know of the whereabouts of others.

There are conflicting statements about when Noah and his gang entered the ark.


anyway....those are only a few things that leave me scratching my head. Also the only unforgiveable sin is blasphemy of the holy spirit? ....other then that you can be forgiven?......right.


And yes you can say "well it has double meanings and etc etc etc" but...for something that people live and die by you would expect it to be more factual.

[nacho]

SC i had pretty much the exact same questions before i learnt more about the religion n stuff. here are the answers that ive gotten to those points. make of them what you will.

the garden of eden is a sin story, it shows the effects of sin as taught by the church. the snake talking to eve was her giving into temptation and then causing the effects of sin;
- alienating us from ourselfs (realising they were naked causing them to hide)
- the above effect then alienated us from each other
- alienating us from other nations (being cast away from the garden to roam endlessly)
- alienating us from god
the snake talking is just a character within the parable of the garden of eden.

for the creation issue u have, refer to my earlier post which touched on the point.

God "is upset/surprisd that the wickedness of man ". the common answer to this question by my teachers, priest and lecturers is "free will" dont ask me to elaborate coz they didnt either when i asked lol

Id never heard of the only unforgivable sin being blasphemy :S. catholics believe that God will come again and perform a judgment (the particular judgement IIRC) which he will then forgive sins and allow them to eek eternal union with god (heaven) if not forgiven then they recieve eternal alienation from god (hell). but ill admit... thinking about it.... the unforgivable sin and the judgement contradict each other

"If a wife's husband was to die wihtout having a child...the husbands brother has  to marry her or risked being spat in the face"
ull probably find that that is just a particular value/custom/tradition which was present during the time that that part of the bible was written and was included. there are a bunch of messed up crazy laws in the bible just check out Deuterology things about like "if a mans new wife was not a virgin, to prove this he must present the sheets from the wedding night with no blood on them" also like "if a womans husband is in a fight, she is allowed to kick the other man in the groin".

i thought id share my answers that i recieved to those questions as to just hopefully clear things up for u. im not trying to brainwash or convert u, just helping out lol

[Surandy]

SC i had pretty much the exact same questions before i learnt more about the religion n stuff. here are the answers that ive gotten to those points. make of them what you will.

the garden of eden is a sin story, it shows the effects of sin as taught by the church.

Perhaps the clergy and the likes should listen to their god's own stories on sin and actually learn some lessons. How many pedophiles are hidden by the various churches?

[Super Cronk]

SC i had pretty much the exact same questions before i learnt more about the religion n stuff. here are the answers that ive gotten to those points. make of them what you will.

the garden of eden is a sin story, it shows the effects of sin as taught by the church. the snake talking to eve was her giving into temptation and then causing the effects of sin;
- alienating us from ourselfs (realising they were naked causing them to hide)
- the above effect then alienated us from each other
- alienating us from other nations (being cast away from the garden to roam endlessly)
- alienating us from god
the snake talking is just a character within the parable of the garden of eden.

for the creation issue u have, refer to my earlier post which touched on the point.

God "is upset/surprisd that the wickedness of man ". the common answer to this question by my teachers, priest and lecturers is "free will" dont ask me to elaborate coz they didnt either when i asked lol

Id never heard of the only unforgivable sin being blasphemy :S. catholics believe that God will come again and perform a judgment (the particular judgement IIRC) which he will then forgive sins and allow them to eek eternal union with god (heaven) if not forgiven then they recieve eternal alienation from god (hell). but ill admit... thinking about it.... the unforgivable sin and the judgement contradict each other

"If a wife's husband was to die wihtout having a child...the husbands brother has  to marry her or risked being spat in the face"
ull probably find that that is just a particular value/custom/tradition which was present during the time that that part of the bible was written and was included. there are a bunch of messed up crazy laws in the bible just check out Deuterology things about like "if a mans new wife was not a virgin, to prove this he must present the sheets from the wedding night with no blood on them" also like "if a womans husband is in a fight, she is allowed to kick the other man in the groin".

i thought id share my answers that i recieved to those questions as to just hopefully clear things up for u. im not trying to brainwash or convert u, just helping out lol

All good nacho....it didnt clear anything up at all though to be honest  . Like i said...thats always the same answer by you guys "oh it wasnt a real snake..." But they mention many times that "asses (donkeys)"  and "serpents" speak to people. There is no animal on earth that can speak a human language....where did all these magic animals go?

Blasphmey against the HOLY SPIRIT....you can murder, rape, kill....you can diss god and and any other religious figure....BUT not the "spirit"....


lol @ your teachers not elaborating. Ofcourse they dont!!! Yes true they say god gave humans free will....BUT he is still all knowing all loving and all powerful....(sorry cant remember how to spell all the "omni's lol)...he knows whats going to happen so he should not be surprised at all.


Do i believe there was once a "king" like figure...who had son called jesus, and a wife named mary? Sure do. And i think this god fellow was probly more advanced then most men at the time and the people looked to him as a "god" ...and somewhere down the line things were lost in translation.

Also what is the explainition for the missing jesus years?

[Surandy]

Also what is the explainition for the missing jesus years?

You clearly haven't watched Dogma if you need to ask that question.  m

[Super Cronk]

I love dogma! And slightly off topic...got the new clerks 15th anniversary dvd yesterday 

[Mikey]

Super as far as your question about Sin I can answer that.

God is a loving, forgiving and just God so no matter what you do he will still love you because he is a loving god.
The basis of Christianty is that god has given us a second chance after the world stuffed it up the first time. Therefore denying the holy spirit is unforiveable because thats the one part of god that lives within us.

As for the points in the bible e.g animals talking etc I am happy to get into more details and specifics when I have a bit more time but make sure your reading the whole passage and not taking one little bit out of context. There is humour in the bible as well remember.

Hope this helps

[Super Cronk]

1Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

I have a very very wide range of humour....nothing in the above is humourus to me.